God-casting: NYC’s Top Three Religion Podcasts

 

 

 

Envision yourself on your morning commute. The subway is crowded. You are close enough to your neighbor that you can read their book over their shoulder, but you’re not interested in the career of Robert Rauschenberg. Plus, you missed your weekend church service, so you’re feeling unprepared for this Monday.

You have 45 more minutes to go on this train. Isn’t there some way you can pass the time?

You slip your headphones onto your head, settle the speakers over your ears and tap the play button on your phone. A voice begins. You feel like it’s speaking directly to you. Other voices join in. They talk about meditation on a busy morning, or about how their families celebrated Ramadan when they were younger, or a lively conversation between two friends about whether God exists or not.  You smile and laugh, ignoring the cramped, lonely train car around you.

You’ve entered the podcast zone.

Podcasts are portable radio broadcasts, accessible through any device that has an internet connection: home computers, laptops, tablets, and phones. Since 2005, podcasting has become the fastest growing broadcasting industry in the United States. Apple alone hosts over 525,000 individual podcast programs that can be streamed from anywhere. Last year, there were 42 million weekly listeners across the country, who averaged listening to five podcasts for more than five hours a week.

Sensing opportunity, religious communities are hopping on the podcast train. Some use podcasting to avail their weekly sermons to members who missed the service or who are removed from the physical community. Others see podcasting as an accessible vehicle to educate non-members about their beliefs and practices. There is also a trend for religious thinkers to use podcasts as a platform to explore heterodox ideas that people in ordained spaces are reluctant to discuss.

 

Podcast: a New Platform for New York City Faith

New York City hosts a crowning glory of podcasts. An August 2017 report by the New York City Mayor’s Office of Media and Entertainment (MOME) asserted that in 2016, the top four New York City podcast networks, which include WNYC Studios, Gimlet Media, Slate, and Panopoly, represented 1.3 billion of the Apple’s 10 billion streams and downloads that year.

The 33 percent job growth rate of New York City’s podcasting networks dwarfs that of the city’s advertising industry, which shows 7 percent growth, and surpasses the rate of job growth in television and radio news as well. The industry is expected to continue growing quickly. You don’t need a production team or studio to publish a podcast. You need a voice recorder, an internet connection and something to say.

We have reviewed the religious podcasts that originate in the city and have picked out our top three: Meditation in the City; See Something, Say Something; and Hinge.

 

Meditation in the City

One early religious podcast to come out of New York City was Meditation in the City, begun in 2013 by the Shambhala Meditation Center of New York in Manhattan’s Flatiron District. David Sadzin, the host of the podcast and previously the center’s Director of Practice and Education, wondered whether he could use the podcast platform to release the center’s recordings of their weekly open houses to a broader audience.

Though he listened to one or two secular podcasts that talked about meditation, such as one hosted by the Interdependence Project, religious podcasts were “not a very full niche.” Sadzin saw an opportunity to make the weekly lectures available for both people who were part of the Shambhala community and unable to attend each week, as well as newbies with a budding interest in meditation practices.

Whereas meditation newbies may be “reluctant to go in person to a place like the Shambhala Center knowing nothing,” Sadzin reasons that “a virtual space to start with is a good way for people to get into it.”

 

 

Shambhala is a form of Buddhism that applies Buddhism’s monastic teachings to secular society. One story about its inception says that an ancient king heard of the Buddha’s wisdom and traveled to meet him. When he finally met the wise sage, the king said that he would love to study under him but that his responsibilities as king would not allow him a cloistered life.

“Can you offer me any other teachings?” he asked the Buddha.

The Buddha gave the king the Kalachakra teachings, which taught how the kingdom could embody the Buddhist values of compassion and mindfulness. The Shambhala tradition continues to instruct on how such meditation can create a peaceable secular society.

 

 

The intro to each episode represents how meditation transmutes hectic thoughts into clarity. One voice starts speaking. Another joins in. Soon, a multitude of voices overwhelms the ear.

Sentence fragments slip through the noise: “Good days and bad days…”; “…waterfall of thoughts…”; “Every now and then, a nice, calm…”

The cacophony breaks; the ticking of a clock. Then, an exhale. A male voice murmurs, “I can’t think of anything.” Finally, peace.

Sadzin’s deep, steady voice is a welcome oasis after the commotion. He introduces the topic and speaker, and then plays the recorded lecture. Topics range from informative (“Essentials of the Shambhala Teachings”; “How can Buddhists deal with wealth?”) to esoteric (“Emotion is the Pathway to Reality”) to playful (“Meditators Make Better Lovers”). A recent episode looked at “The Dharma of Black Lives Matter.”

 

 

Sadzin hopes first-time listeners walk away with a corrected understanding of meditation. Many people come into the Center with the misconception that “meditation is all about shutting off your mind or shutting off your thoughts.”

But meditation is not about achieving silence. To the contrary, meditating makes you “more aware than you ever were of what’s going on in your mind, because you’re actually sitting with yourself without the distraction that you would normally have.” That doesn’t mean that you’re doing it wrong, Sadzin assures, “that’s supposed to happen!”

“The idea is not to try to extinguish all that noise or put a damper on it,” Sadzin explains. “The idea is to create a bit more space around that mental turbulence.” Creating that space can reduce a person’s stress, help them look objectively at what is going on around them, and maybe even have a sense of humor about their circumstances. Mental noise isn’t a bad thing; it just needs to be channeled into a productive examination.

While books on meditation are available, Sadzin believes that learning from another person, even electronically, is more traditional, authentic, and effective. The rhythms of meditation are “necessary to hear from another living person.” Obviously receiving instruction in-person is ideal, but a voice in your ear recreates the personal intimacy that self-teaching from books lacks.

 Sadzin reports that the podcast typically has five to ten thousand worldwide downloads per episode. However, the lessons play a special role in New York City, where pop culture and the news cycle “are most concentrated…where they become most vibrant but also where they’re at their most confusing.”

The Center has rural retreats to help New York practitioners refresh from the city noise. But for those who can’t take the time away, the podcast helps create an internal space apart.

 

Kevin Bogle: Fallen Idols – Podcast 195

 

See Something, Say Something

In addition to publishing lectures, other podcasts about religion let listeners feel like they’re sitting at the table with friends, laughing, telling stories, and talking about what matters to them.

Ahmed Ali Akbar had worked for two years as a content creator for Buzzfeed. His essays on Muslim issues were getting several hundred thousand views, and Akbar thought there was an audience for a podcast that would focus on Muslim American voices that were not typically depicted in mainstream media. In 2016, Akbar pitched his idea to Ben Smith, Buzzfeed’s then editor-in-chief.

 

 

A song by the Pakistani-American punk rock band The Kominas inspired the title See Something, Say Something, and doubles as the podcast’s theme song.

Akbar felt that Western media reduces Islam to a single representation. However, while most Muslims share core beliefs like that there is one God who revealed himself through the Prophet Muhammad and the Quran, Islam has many different cultural expressions. As the religion spread around the globe, it adapted to the cultures it encountered, cultivating a multifaceted global community.

“It’s great to have Pakistani Muslim men in media,” Akbar reflects, “but I felt like we were overrepresented.” He strategized with Buzzfeed’s production team to design a podcast that was “more of a celebration and analysis of all the diversity within the [Muslim] community.”

 

 

Additionally, Akbar wanted See Something, Say Something to be firstly for a Muslim audience. Media that try to explain or demystify Muslim issues for non-Muslim listeners center the discussion around a non-Muslim perspective by default. Akbar wanted a space where he and his guests could “just be ourselves” and not have to define terms, concepts, and context for their listeners.

“We’re not trying to break stereotypes and educate,” Akbar explains. “There’s plenty of people who do that work, and that’s good work too, but we thought we could offer something a little different.” He envisioned a talk-show style podcast unimpeded by the constant definitions and examples that interrupt education-focused programs. Muslims from various communities would also benefit from a show highlighting different experiences.

“Our lives are so complex and many of us also don’t understand each other fully as a community because it’s so diverse,” Akbar laments. So, as guests share and compare their own viewpoints, the podcast then becomes both “a learning process for the guests and for listeners of all backgrounds.”

Akbar compares See Something Say Something to an Islamic halaqah. ‘Halaqah’ is the Arabic word for ‘ring’ or ‘circle,’ and refers to a small gathering of students around a scholar to learn about a particular topic. However, “there are no experts” on the show. “See Something” rarely features religious scholars, instead favoring colloquial voices. The exchange of ideas between a small number of diverse participants each week stimulates fresh approaches to topics.

 

 

Akbar starts each show by offering his guests a cup of chai and a game. One repeated game is “Halal or Not?”, in which Akbar asks his guests to qualify whether an item from pop culture—for example, frosted mini-wheat and Facebook relationship statuses—is permissible under Islamic law. Sometimes, Akbar asks his guests what they’re thinking about this week to let them share off-topic anecdotes and ideas.

Then, he mediates the conversation around the topic of the episode. His guests, who have included queer women, professional athletes, and black American Muslims, have the floor. The show casts a wide net in which topics it covers. One week, Akbar and his guests discussed the executive order issued by President Donald Trump that halted admissions from Muslim-majority countries into the United States, colloquially called the Muslim Ban.

Another dissected the depiction of Islam and renunciation in the Netflix series Master of None. Several episodes have talked about romance, dating, family expectations, and being single. A popular topic is Ramadan, which “touched a lot of people who are isolated during Ramadan…I got a lot of emails during that time that were like: ‘this made me feel like I had a community during this time when I’m supposed to be with family.’”

 

 

Podcasting is an “amazing” medium to feature the guests and issues that are discussed on See Something, says Akbar, because the vehicle of voice recording “lets you forget about the optics for a second.”

“Unlike when you’re put on camera, you’re not being made to be an example,” he says of his guests. “You’re truly [just] a voice.” When viewers watch speakers on the news or in movies, they make assumptions from the appearance of the people that they are watching.

But on the podcast, “nobody sees what you look like; everyone is just hearing your voice and your name — and they might have assumptions about you, but you’re truly speaking as a voice in a way that” allows the guests to define themselves for the audience.

Mainstream media paints the Muslim community with a broad brush; See Something, Say Something spotlights each guest as a distinct masterpiece.

 

 

Hinge

Most recently, religious podcasters have found their voice in narrative podcasts, a genre that relies on storytelling to convey its point. Hinge, a podcast “about doubt, identity, and the search for the real Jesus,” demonstrates that for interfaith podcasting, stories are the best way to explore differences.

Cory Markum and Drew Sokol, the podcast’s hosts, could not be farther apart on the ideological spectrum. Markum is a writer for the blog Atheist Republic and has appeared on various radio shows and stages to debunk religion, including Christianity. Sokol is a pastor at one of New York City’s most renowned Presbyterian congregations, Redeemer Presbyterian Church.

 

 

In 2014, a desire for honest conversation led Sokol to contact Markum via Facebook Messenger and ask to talk with him about the very issues that divide them. From that exchange grew the idea for a podcast where the two co-hosts team up to investigate the historical claims of Christianity and its central figure Jesus. Though Hinge is produced by the independent agency Curios Media, the format and content was influenced by consulting with the Brooklyn-based podcasting company Gimlet Media, which specializes in the narrative form.

In ten episodes that ran from December of 2017 to March of 2018, Markum and Sokol interviewed scholars as well as lay people about the various questions surrounding Jesus, such as, what do historians say about the story of the crucifixion? Why would early Christians die for their beliefs if they knew them to be false? Episodes also explore more rarefied questions such as, how can a good god exist in a world full of pain?

Intertwined with the factual responses to the questions are personal anecdotes and reflections from each participant. The two hosts take turns heading each episode, and always end with a mutual discussion segment.

The set up feels timely in a year where discourse between different cultural parties seems to be impossible. While it’s nothing new for a Christian and an atheist to debate such topics, what stands apart about this collaboration is that Sokol and Markum constructed the podcast as equal partners with the intention of avoiding contention.

Instead, they explore together. They talk back and forth like old friends. They challenge each other’s assumptions. Sometimes they interrupt each other and other times they let the other rant. And ultimately, they demonstrate how respectful conversation and listening can break barriers. Even if you don’t agree with one host or the other, it’s easy to put yourself in their shoes as they discuss their reactions to the stories told in the podcast.

Sokol reports that the podcast averaged 15,000 listeners per episode, and about 130,000 total downloads. Both hosts hope that their audience walked away with a better understanding of those who believe differently than they do.

People get trapped in the “bubble” of their own viewpoint, “especially online—we congregate with groups of likeminded people, and we tune out the stuff that we don’t like or disagree with. Even our Facebook feeds are orientated around what we want,” says Markum. But working on “Hinge” made him more “humble.” As he and Sokol daily wrestled over deeper questions, Markum was “constantly forced to confront the fact that, okay, this seems reasonable to me, but this person right here, who I know is also reasonable, completely disagrees.”

 

 

So, when “our Christian brothers and sisters” have certain beliefs, Markum cautions atheist listeners that they are not just being stupid—“they have good reasons for what they believe within their worldview, just as I have good reasons for what I believe.”

Sokol likewise encourages believing listeners that it’s okay for them to admit that they don’t know everything. Christians are often viewed as “anti-intellectual” by secular media, and Sokol recognizes a prevalent fear among Christians that outsiders might “think I’m the guy who wasn’t willing to question what my parents taught me.” That fear can lead Christians to dig in their heels and not fully examine their own doubts, which Sokol believes flattens the experience of faith. “You do not need to have all the answers. Your job is to start the conversation” he says.

The Bible itself is filled with questions and frustrations, which “allows a whole lot more room for doubt than I think most people imagine.”

 

 

When asked about how the two friends balance respect with challenging each other on points they disagree with, Sokol argues that persuasion is part of human interaction.

“We’re always attempting to persuade and convert people,” he wrote in an email. “For instance, I just saw Coco the other day and loved it. I’ve been encouraging people to go see it all week.” He concludes, “I don’t think conversations about ultimate reality need to be much different. We just need to be much more humble in the way that we engage.”

Markum agrees that people shouldn’t avoid talking about what makes them different. While some atheists denounce any type of proselytization, Markum empathizes with believers who are convicted to share their faith. If a person believes that “his fellow human beings are going to burn in hell for all eternity because they don’t have the right beliefs” and “isn’t trying to change that outcome,” Markum affirms, “then something’s wrong with that person!”

 

 

 Hinge demonstrates how to listen—literally—to stories that might challenge your own viewpoint, and puts you in the shoes of speakers you might otherwise rebut.

 

What role should beauty and emotion play in the search for the real Jesus? What role might it have played for the eyewitnesses to his life?

 

While podcasting feels like a new trend, it is also simply a continuation of how faith groups have communicated since the human larynx dropped. Podcasts can be used to teach, to create community, or to present new perspectives; and as the industry continues to grow in New York City, we look forward to seeing what new voices find their way onto the stream.

What is your top NYC religion podcast? Let us know in the comment section!

 

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