Partial transcript, will be updated.
T Carnes 0:07
Hi journeyers, I’m Tony Carnes, your host for A Journey through NYC religions Television.
Let me ask you a question. At your religious services this last weekend, you were probably told something like, Blessed are the peacemakers, be compassionate, and promote reconciliation. But how do you put Sunday principles into practice on Monday morning, when you have a close deal? Or you got to argue your viewpoint on our project? Are you plot to beat the competition? Does goodwill end at the church, synagogue or masjid doors?
Today, we have Seth Freeman, who is going to give us some tools to produce goodness in even our most conflictual interactions. He teaches negotiations at the NYU Stern School of Business, as well as at the Columbia Business School. He has approached to happiness through negotiations has been featured in articles in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Washington Post, Time Magazine, and others. Welcome to the program, Seth.
Seth Freeman 1:10
Oh, thank you so much, Tony. It’s a real pleasure.
T Carnes 1:13
So how do we take what happens on Sunday morning, and put it into practice on Monday?
Seth Freeman 1:19
What a great question. You know, I’m only interested in the answer 10 hours a day. I’ve just been passionate about this for so long. And I don’t think that there’s one single answer. In fact, that’s kind of the focus of the whole book. But I would say if somebody really said, Give me one thing that could make me, help me be more effective today, that could make a difference, I would probably suggest the first tool in the book, and let me share with you a brief story that might illustrate how this can help. It certainly helped me go from being kind of a jerk in the situation to being something much closer to what I was trying to be.
T Carnes 2:01 This is taken from your book 15 tools to Turn the Tide. Astep by step playbook gor empowered negotiating, which we will link to on our website, and also into Professor Freeman’s own website.
Seth Freeman 02:20
So, there I was. It was a Wednesday afternoon, rainy, cold, November day, just before the eve of Thanksgiving, and one of the worst moments to try to find a taxi. So, I’m waiting there. I’m cold and wet.
And oh, wait, there’s one taxi. And the guy comes over and I get in. He says, where to?
I say Midtown Manhattan.
He goes, No.
And I go, What do you mean, No?
I’m not going there, he says.
And I go, but you got to: it says right there on the back of your seat that you have to take me to any location in New York City.
He replies, Because I’m not going there. I don’t care.
And I said, Well, I’m not getting out of the cab.
He goes, Well, I’m not moving.
So great. I’m, I’m sitting there feeling silly. And he’s sitting there. And a full minute goes by which feels like five or 10, when you’re in a situation like this. And we’re both stewing.
Haah, I breathe out an exasperated signal that I have to do something.
Finally, I say to him, why won’t you take me to Manhattan?
He goes, because rush hour is going to mean that I’m going to spend the next two hours going there and coming back. I’m about to go off duty. And I live out on Long Island in the other direction. I don’t want to be stuck in traffic all afternoon and evening.
Huuh, I breathe out. I look out the window, and I notice that about two blocks away there’s another taxi and it’s got a light on. It’s too far to run to in the rain. Someone could grab it, but it’s available.
Seth Freeman 03:53
And so I go, if you’ll drive me over to that taxi over there, and he lets me in, he’ll take me to Manhattan, I’ll get up.
And immediately, the cab driver goes, you got to deal.
We drive over, Hey, can you take this guy to Manhattan?
Sure, the other cabbie says, Get in. And I get out.
And as I’m getting out, the cab driver says, Hey, man, thanks so much. I’m sorry I couldn’t take you.
And I said no problem at all. Have a great Thanksgiving.
Now, what was it that allowed him and me to go from being really hostile to each other, like typical New Yorkers can be, to actually getting along and wishing each other well, in literally a minute or two? Well, what I used there were three little words. And the words are interests, facts, options.
The turning point was firstly, when I asked him, why won’t you take me to Manhattan? Those are interests. I was looking to learn his interests. And that’s a critical turning point. Usually, when we’re mad at people or they’re mad at us, it’s because we’re locked into a single position. Take me to Manhattan. No! Yes! No!
That’s a position and many arguments founder on just that. When I asked him, why, he shared with me the reason he told me that his concern,. Ah! He wants to get home, which is actually a pretty good reason. So, my interest was I needed to go meet with a loved one in Manhattan soon and avoid the rain.
Alright, so now I start gathering facts. And one key fact was that, Oh, there’s another taxi that’s available. And that gave me an idea, it gave me an option. Instead of making him go to Manhattan, what if we got me there by another means? And I needed his help to get to that point. And that was immediately good for him.
Oh, I can get rid of you in a minute! Sure. I’m happy to help you! he thought.
And it solved his problem, it solved my problem. And we were both harmonious.
Now that might seem like a small, even slightly trivial example. But I’ve seen people use the three little word to do everything from resolve an existential crisis that was facing a company where in 20 minutes, the company was about to go out of business because a client was demanding something impossible change into saving $100 million in the course of a year. And to saving a family that was collapsing in the wake of a death.
T Carnes 06:31
Well, I’m interested in this example of the corporation that was 20 minutes away from collapsing. Tell me how that situation worked? And that these three words, interests, facts, and options. How did that work?
Seth Freeman 06:53
So you’re sitting at your desk one day, and you get a call from Brenda, who represents your company’s biggest client. And she says, How’s the project going?
Seth Freeman 07:03
And you say, oh, it’s going great. We’re on scheduled to have it for you, as we promised in 60 days.
Seth Freeman 07:09
And she says, Yeah, that’s what I’m calling about. We need it in 30. And you almost fall out of your chair.
Seth Freeman 07:16
You say, Brenda, I really don’t think that’s going to happen.
Seth Freeman 07:18
She says, What would you please check? Because it would mean a lot to us.
Seth Freeman 07:22
So, you do and your team laughs you out of the room. You call you say, Brenda, I just check with him. There’s no way. She’s not happy. But she concludes the call, you go back to work.
Seth Freeman 07:31
10 minutes later, your boss Dave calls you and says get in here. So what do you do? Dave is on the phone with Brenda’s boss, Betty and Betty is really angry.
Seth Freeman 07:43
She’s saying, if you don’t get us this project done and in our hands in 30 days, you’re going to lose us.
Seth Freeman 07:52
Oh, my God, what do we do? And so, you very wisely tell your boss to tell her you will call her back.
Seth Freeman 07:56
And you say, Can we call you back? And she says yes, but I’m going into a meeting in 20 minutes with my bosses, I need to hear from you.
Seth Freeman 08:04
Get everyone in here, says Dave, as the call ends. And so everyone convenes. And what do you do? Everyone on the team says it’s impossible. And Dave tells you, we’ve got to do this.
Seth Freeman 08:16
This is exactly the same problem I faced with the taxi driver, we were each taking positions. And so are the people in your story.
Seth Freeman 08:26
Now, the tech teams know the boss’s position is yes. What would you do in that situation? Well, I had a student janice, who faced that very problem. And she deployed the three little words.
Seth Freeman 08:41
she first asked the team, why can’t we do this. And they immediately firehose her with dozens of technical reasons.
Seth Freeman 08:48
Okay. Okay, she says, Why do you suppose the client needs this in 30 days?
Seth Freeman 08:57
We don’t know and suddenly, things shift to quiet and everyone’s going, hmm. And they start thinking and talking. They put the puzzle pieces together. And they discover that they have a pilot project that they want to debut as a showcase. And they need our work to make that project, that pilot project a success.
Seth Freeman 09:20
Well, says Janice, as she’s now gathered facts and interests, she says, Are there any things we can do to help them successfully launch this pilot project in 30 days, even if our project isn’t fully ready yet?
Seth Freeman 09:36
Hmm. And they start coming up with some ideas. They came up with three: times up and got a call back
Seth Freeman 09:42
They call Betty back. Dave and Janice asked her just before we tell you what we think we’ve got, why do you want this in 30 days. And it’s just as they guessed, the pilot they want to launch in 30 days.
Seth Freeman 09:58
Well, says Dave with Janice coaching, I gotta tell you, if you really want the project in 30 days, no one can do it, it’s technically impossible. But if you want to launch the pilot in 30 days, we can help because one thing we can do is manually perform the functions that our project will automate. We can do that from behind in the other room until it’s ready to take over. Would that work for you?
Seth Freeman 10:24
And Betty says, you would do that for us?
Seth Freeman 10:26
Yes, we’ll then do two volunteers, they can easily do it for you. Just tell us when and where
Seth Freeman 10:32
You guys are amazing. Fantastic, Betty says. You’re gonna be, you guys are rock stars, we’re gonna give you lots more business.
Seth Freeman 10:38
And Janice was a hero. And she used the same three little words, interest, facts, options.
